On the one hand, its a cool idea.

Nice!

That's up to: 3,981,818 SP per year according to my preschool math skills. I like it. A lot.

Technically, that would still be true.

Well said and I would say it didn't work in Dust because Dust was a failure.

I also don't understand why, in a sandbox, you'd want to tie it to ratting specifically.

Why is this necessary? Is this trying to increase the overall level of SP in the game, or get SP to ratters?

Except the current war won't last an eternity and everyone knows that including CCP. A spike in logins is useless. You need long term stuff.

Wow CCP
And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game.

So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did.

Dailies are not punishing. You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging. The daily idea is wrong for something completely different. The fact that people could not get 100% of the potential benefit should not be an issue for anyone. The player base here is just full of hypocrisy and feel 100% entitled to get 100% return of any opportunity if it involve SP.

If people didn't feel entitled to getting it all, they would not be unhappy about potentially missing some because they work. They FEEL penalized because they think they SHOULD get it all when it reality, they would be getting 100% of the reward they deserve by fulfilling the requirement as many time as they can.

Start feeling penalized when they remove stuff from you if you don't do something, not when they don't give you something if you didn't do the required action.

You get the reward for the one you do and that's where it ends. You don't lose anything for not logging.

Character with no active queue or no skill in an active queue are not penalized, they get exactly what they should. You think you are penalized because you fell entitled to those SP.

To get to a battleship you only need to train skills to 3 along the way. That takes about 2 days or 100k or so of SP.
With a ship at 3 you can use it just fine to earn isk along the way also.
Guns similar, except even fewer categories.

[GǪ]

So sure, a brand new character is not as powerful, but it also does not take long for them to become as powerful. And there is no specific need for them to get faster training for that initial time period.

In that light you millions of SP behind anyone who chooses to inject skills. It free, take it or leave it.

CCP is not twisting your arm, reducing your game time or limiting the amount of damage you can deal in the game. They are just not handing you the SP unless you do the stupid task.

Out of all the feedback here, the overwhelmingly negative feedback, the only thing you took from it was this? Is reading comprehension not a strong suit of yours or do you really not give a **** about what we've been saying?

I have come to the conclusion that, as noted previously, your plan is proceeding on script in a bid to get us to shut up by saying "well, it's not as bad as the first idea". I have news for you, I will only acquiesce because I will stop believing that player feedback matters to CCP. I will not be the only one. How long after you lose our trust and respect do you expect to need a new log in "reward" to boost numbers again?

I can't wait to hear what kind of feedback you all get in person, Fanfest should be really interesting.

To be fair, that was one of the biggest concerns.

To be fairer, the title of the thread is "Daily Opportunities coming soon", not "Dailies MIGHT be coming", or "Dev Idea - Dailies, player opinion makes or breaks".

I think it was actually kinda unreasonable on our part to assume that we could change anything about this. From the start, this project was a go, we just were able to shave off some of the rougher corners of it.

Maybe if this game wasn't boring as shit more people would log in and you wouldn't have to add dumb gimmicks like daily chores.

You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.

You should check around before making assumptions like that. A request to remove the daily cap in WoW was commonly made because player felt they should be allowed to do as many as they wished instead of being capped at X per day. Disliking something, even if it's at the level of hating it with a passion does not mean everybody think like you.

That makes them, by definition, not daily any more.

Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account.
Off to Elite: Dangerous!

You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You justGǪ

The fact that a bunch of entitled babies can't see that they have a choice and instead feel forced to do something is not a pathetic excuse. I would not introduce something like that but I also understand that there are no penalty involved. Your sub does not entitle you to all the possible SP anymore. Some of it will have be be "earned" in a stupid way. That's all there is to it. If you feel forced to do it, seek help because the issue is in your head.

The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka

Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here.

Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to

Injectors?

Buying a character off the bazar?

Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something.

Last time I checked, my time is completely independant from CCP changes.

I still live 24 hours each day. What CCP is giving you is SP.

You will still get your 24 hours of training

Nope. You get 25 24 hours or training for having an active queu for 24 hours with a skill in there and you will still get 24 hours of SP for having a queu active for those 24 hours with a skill there.

I will get all the SP I qualify for and not receive those I don't qualify for.

It's stupid but it's the only way that stupid feature will get them what they want.

Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks

skill injectors are accepted, and why should this not be?

You are surely the type of player who think EA is doing it all wrong while they are swimming in pools of money. If the real goal was fun, nobody would be making a dime in the gaming industry as they would burn all the money into MOAR FUN!!!!

You keep the fun at an ok level and coast on it. This new feature does not add fun. Nothing about it is fun at all. What it adds is log-ins. Log-ins seems irrelevant but they are not. Rise said it in this very thread. Log-ins for non-direct gameplay reason generate un-intended gameplay event. You used to log for your skill queu every few days because you had less than 24 hours queued at that point and while there, you saw someone online to do something with or just did something because well, you are already in game so why not.

Technically, they could just revert the skillqueue change and get back those log-ins but the feature is really well liked. People are happy to be able to setup their plan and just forget about it so removing this is a hard sell for CCP. From that point on, you have to give players a reason to log in that is often enough to matter (if it's once a month, it's not worth the effort to develop) and relatively easy so chances are you will still have some "game will" to do something after it in game. If they make the task something meaningful that lakes some time, they have a higher risk of player doing it and quitting. 1st daily wins like in WoT are an example of that. A lot fo people would do their 1st win and stop playing because getting that first win could easily take over 15 mins. Adding to a skillqueue for example just took a few seconds.

The activity to get you online also has to be realtively easy in game term to make sure everyone can be the "log-in that will make stuff happen". If you ask people to scan a WH, you lost a good chunk of player because some can't scan anyway while shooting a rat is possible for at least 99% of the characters in game. (You technically might have a market alt with extracted weapon skill which would be unable to kill a frig rat but those are not likely to be numerous)

The reward need to be attractive. If you give nothing, the log-ins won't happen. Nobody will long-in just to log in. You can try many things but in EVE, there is one ultimate carrot. The carrot that makes people orange with envy. The one that people are the most likely to do what you ask of them for it. That carrot also has a few bonus attached to it. You are monetizing it in a way that even people with a metric ass ton of it will have a use for it while most other resources might not. This is why SP was chosen and not anything like LP which some people are too damn rich to care about, ISK for the same reason, special LP because people might not want to spacebarbie their character and aurum because this mean killing their own income. SP is valuable to everyone and does not destroy CCPs revenue like aurum would.

Now the first problem come but funnily enough, it's not a CCP problem but a playerbase problem. You see, the carrot that trumps them all really DOES trump them all at an insane level. Players are really going to go out of their way to get it. That carrot is way too tasty. It's a sugar coated candy stuffed with caramel served in a bowl of melted chocolate and the players are sugar deprived kids. We technically can all go down in our own way eating or apple ignoring the treat we can only obtain by juggling chainsaw while jumping through fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard but a lot of people just can't skip it. Hell they are willing to arrange of set of chainsaw with automatic gas refilling to make sure they get it the most often possible. This si technically all on them even if they will accuse CCP of making them do it. CCP never said "Thou shall juggle chainsaw while jumping fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard". All they are doing it saying "Hey guys, we're leaving to you everything you used to have but if you ever feel like doing and extra thing, we'll give you something for it".

This is what CCP is announcing right now. The choice will stay in each player's hand just like all the choice we don in game. The requirement for the reward is something more than likely just so we can't just crash the client as soon as it load so we can do it faster while still begin extremely short, easy and not really "gameable" like PvP kills would be.

Inertia.

After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours.

With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'.

Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this.

But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie.

CCP used to believe this, yes.

If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee!

You should really stop quoting this as you have no data on how much SP has already been lost with injectors so tehnically RIse might be right that every SP on market will have originated as it would have been trained at normal rate.

How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs.

No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!

Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".

Start one mission, kill rat, collect SP.

How the hell do you lose 10k SP you never had in the first place?

How about something different, you get points you can put towards reducing jump fatigue, reducing time until you can jump clone, reducing time until you can change skill attributes. Even points towards standings with NPC corps and sec status?

I like the idea of giving something to people who play the game every day. I donGÇÖt like the idea of using skills points, itGÇÖs too key to game progression and hurts people who donGÇÖt have time or are able to even login the game every day. The big selling point to Eve, even people I know who donGÇÖt play the game say they like that aspect of the game, over other MMORPG.

Ratting in a battleship is about 120 mill/hours because I can manage to get a BS rat killed under the 30 second mark from log-in?

Any activity which has limitation on it can't really just be extrapolated to a real isk/hours ratio unless you at least state those requirement. You'd need 10 account minimum for example to sustain your number over a single hour and they all have to meet the criteria of having a opportunity open to completion with a character at 80+ mill SP.

You missed my point. Ratting isn't 120 mill/hours for the same reason the opportunity won't be 400 mill/hour. You cna do it at the start of the clock but both die out quite fast. Killing your first rat for the opportunity will be really fast and extrapolating that to a full hour generate big numbers but at the end of the day, it's unsustainable even for a full hour. Killing 1 BS rat under 30 seconds can be done but that does not mean anyone really rat at 120 mill/hour because it's just as unsustainable. Grinding SP with the opportunity will cap out at a few million/22 hours because that's the most you can repeat it.

Yes, but why SP ? Even small AUR reward would not be so awful.

[quote=El Burt]when was the last time you logged in, and played a whole session, and didn't come across a single rat that you could just shoot on your way past?

If you decide to roleplay with enough self imposed rules that you miss out on something, that's not CCP's fault. You set those rule yourself.

Sorry bud, I think you and I have different visions of what is 'fun' to do in EvE. I'd much rather be bad at EvE and get blown up repeatedly than grind all day, every day for implants. The point is, I get far less SP than someone who logs in once a week.

I don't feel forced to have +5's to get equal SP than people who seldom play, so why do the same people feel 'forced' to log in, if this goes through, when the reality is they may still gain more SP than the average player by being logged out. It all just seems rather selfish.

CCP wants players to log every day, not just sunday. So it would be pointless to do such feature.

It does. Anyone can take advantage of it - sure - but the ones who are going to benefit the most from this are newbies.

...

A PVP kill is arguably harder to obtain, so less easy to farm

...

Yeah because killing alt in ibis is much harder than finding a rat. Oh wait...

From my perspective, you are planning on willingly do something optional you dislike just because you personally can't pass up the reward and would rather burn out doing it than just accepting that you enjoy something else more in the game than logging in to kill a rat and just forgetting about it because sandbox games should be played by doing what you like and not what is the most optimal.

But hey, it's your own personal time so you can do whatever you want with it even if it mean turning a game into a job.

I find these daily quests a terrible, terrible idea! Like WOW-in-Space level of terrible.

Maybe take a week or two off? You'll be helping them learn what this feature is really going to do.

than don't do them

Only when you calculate it as isk/time used. But as you can't repeat it unlimited, it does indeed not pay so much more than anything else. Your max. is approx 243 mill isk pr month pr account. That is peanuts though, so IMO it is not mandatory

Stuff

If you played the game for 13 years you don't need any SP. You are most likely filling up gaps that you didn't really care for. and IMHO dailys will not get away no matter if they work or not. If they do they will upset the people that like them and do you really think the others will thank CCP for it? Yeah, you can make your 48M ISK with dailys, so what? Do you really care if you shoot rats (or players ) for ISK and loot or rats for SP? You get what you want. and if the 10.000SP are 8M ISK you are making around 300M ISK each day you are not loggin in. (6 account ~60.000SP/toon)

I really don't care if you make Billions each day! I want to get into good ships faster. If you take a hassle to get ISK that you don't need: do it. I couldn't care less. What I want are the SP to fly a ship that can be a match to you. Then I need the money to put in good modules but if I'm hanging in it by my fingernails it's not only useless but a waste of ISK. So I want to fly it well and THATS why I need the SP. Not to bolster my pocket which money I don't really have a use for. If it gives you some extra money, why are you complaining? You don't really need the extra money, it's nice to have but no needed, but I NEED the SP!